[Kimo2arrival]

Thinking of applying for a corporate job. Posibly leaving a SMALL 121 company.
What is the worst part of the job?
What is the best part of the job?
How is it being on call?
Who is the worst? Example: NetJets, Avantair, Trans Exec, etc....
Give me your horror story.

[Twisted Mind]

Thinking of applying for a corporate job. Posibly leaving a SMALL 121 company.
What is the worst part of the job?
What is the best part of the job?
How is it being on call?
Who is the worst? Example: NetJets, Avantair, Trans Exec, etc....
Give me your horror story.

Can't comment on frax jobs, but I was a corporate pilot for 2 years and was ecstatic when I finally quit. I was responsible for anything and everything. If the executives boats needed cleaning they brought them to the hangar. When their trucks and cars were dirty you know where they took them. I even was asked to move furniture and clean the gutters at the bosses vacation palace in FL. Probably the worst part of all was the schedule I was suppose to work in the hangar mon-fri on various projects be it legit like aircraft paper work, cleaning the A/C or something totally screwed up like working on a personal project for the owner. This often lead to times when the bosses scheduled trips on the weekends. Opps gone over the weekend then Monday rolls around your in for another five days and whalla two maybe three weeks have gone by and you have not had a day off. If and when a day off would mysteriously happen you didn't know until that day and then lets not forget that I was still on call. The chief pilot had a standing rule of if you leave town on sat or sun it is your problem if you get called. Also we were part 91 so anything goes as far as time and duty are concerned. I flew many trips where I would get home at 11pm or midnight and need to be back at the hangar by 4 or 5am. Do those kind of trips back to back for a few days and you feel like a zombie. I logged in excess of 10 hrs of flight time on several occasions with 14 hr being the highest for one day. The schedules were always changing some times you would have a 4 am show others would be a 12 pm show. I would take my dirty laundry on trips because that is the only place I had time. When I finally left the job I had not had a day off in 3 months! It took 3 weeks before I could sleep though the night. My brain was so @$%@ed up from waking up at different times of the night that I would just wake up every hour. Probably the worst part of the job was the pay it sucked no way around it. I could make more money at a good regional airline on first year pay! Total bullsh@!, but hey I have read on the forums how corporate is the best kept secret in aviation. Just let me tell you it may make you beg for your RJ back! That is my horror story.

[mu300]

I fly part 91 corp. and i have to say Ditto to twisted mind. I thought i was the only one that ended up as jack of all trades. Only had to wash one boat but cars, truck motorcycles, etc. No to mention airplanes and mopping a 100x150 hanger. I know there are many good jobs out there but everyone i know has one similar to mine. The pay blows but i did get jet typed and flew a king air 200 for a while. If your super low time have a few people skills and don't mind 20 days off a year then you can build some time. Be warned unless you get one of those 10% thats a good job i think about 18 months is all anyone can handle. Try to get on with any company thats at least 135 with scheduled time off. Twisted you beat me my worst was 12 hour hobb time and a 20 hour duty day. Although a no BS story carry a beach towel and some deep woods off been locked out of the FBO at night with no car, no phone call and a departure time 4 hours past and slept under the wing of the king air to keep the morning dew off as it was to freaking hot to get inside. If i had only listen to my mentor a soon to retire 777 captain. The quote i will never forget "Your gonna have to suck a bunch of Camel dicks before you get a job worth having. Thats not the bad part as most of those Camels will get back in line."

[harrier]

My hubby is now part 91. I know, not a first person story but still. So far it is great. He was working 91/135 ops before and regularly got called at 2am after having only the bare minimum rest time to go fly some rich kids to vegas or whatever. The schedule was hellish, when they would call him with less then minimum rest and he would say no they would threaten him. The rest days (13) they would tell him he was still on call. He turned his phone off but he would hear about it later if they tried to reach him. They would stick the pilots in the worst motels on the road, cockroaches, smoking rooms, above a loud club, you name it.

So he got the 91 gig and so far much better. I wouldn't call it perfect but as an example the owner called earlier this week saying he needed a flight in the middle of next month. He then asked if 3 weeks was enough notice. Amazing! They stay in nice hotels, rest is no problem, crew family is welcome to join on most flights. They are doing some 135 on the side to offset costs but the pilots get to pick and choose what charter flights to take as long as they get a minimum number per year. Their plan is to get the time early in the month and then have the rest of the month off from 135.

But as was said, it's all about connections. He knew the right people and when he had about the same time I have now he was hopping in a Lear. Me? I don't know anyone so here I sit.

[gator274]

Usually the larger the company the better. Companies in the Fortune 100 will most likely have set schedules when you'll know when you need to be at the hangar, when you're on call, and when you're off. No being tied to a cell phone.

Amenities on the road are also better with larger companies.

[jetdriver]

If you avoid the jobs described by the earlier responses than corporate aviation is a good place to be. Don't accept jobs where you have to clean boats, clean the CEOs vacation home gutters or not get adequate rest. The chief pilot or department manager at those sample companies didn't do their job because they allowed this nonsense.

Worst part of the job?
Working weekends, staying in hotels. But that is something every pilot faces. Working for a manager that had some 'character issues'. I used to have to clean the airplanes, that isn't fun.

What is the best part of the job?
Flying a well equipped, well maintained business jet. Getting paid to fly and getting paid fairly enough to have a home, cars, a few toys, savings, and some vacation each year.

How is it being on call?
I used to have another corporate pilot job where I would get called occassionally on a 'pop-up' and it wasn't all that bad. I wouldn't want to live by the pager like some 135 pilots do.

Who is the worst? Example: NetJets, Avantair, Trans Exec, etc....
You are describing fractional providers, which is only a small part of general (or business) aviation. Corporate aviation is much bigger than this. Just be smart when you accept a job. Don't work for the companies that abuse the pilots, but rather work for one that treats you like a pilot and a professional.

Give me your horror story.
Its tied between finding myself under the belly of an airplane cleaning the airplane soon after getting a new flying job and having conflicts with jerk management. No more!

[NoseWill]

Thinking of applying for a corporate job. Posibly leaving a SMALL 121 company.
What is the worst part of the job?
What is the best part of the job?
How is it being on call?
Who is the worst? Example: NetJets, Avantair, Trans Exec, etc....
Give me your horror story.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm sorry that most stories you heard were of small 91 or 135 outfits. Yes, I have heard those stories myself and have flown with pilots that experienced several horrific working conditions; but...the truth is that unless you taste both sides (part 121, and 135) one will never know which is bettr. I was at a regional before i was hired by a mid-sized corporate gig. Let me tell you, the only plus about the regional was the schedule, the pay sucked (as most very well know), 40% of the Captains I flew with were high and mighty on themselves and had serious attitude problems. Literally, one young captain almost broke the rules just to please the dispatcher; one day trying to repo from JFK to LGA.

I almost quit aviation until I had an interview that changed my life. This corporate gig had a little under 500 pilots (compare to 2800), so you weren't just a number...they knew your name. I made more in 5 months of working there, than 1 year at my previous regional job. And the best part is that over 99% of the Capt's and other FO's were cool/great to work with and hang out.

Despite the lay-off (which is a big risk joining a corporate outfit), I had the best 5 month's of my life. I can now change careers knowing that I flew and worked with some great individual --unlike AE.
Keep your head up high and continue building that time, be patient, and soon the nightmare of working there (regionals) wil be over.

**note - i did not mention Majors because I've never worked for them.**
anyone who can compare all 3 (regionals, corporate, majors) plz reply to this string!!!

[F2TH_FAN]

First of all I want to say that was some brutal treatment in some of the preceding posts. I can happily say that things at my company are great. I think most of it is asking the right questions before you take the job. Know what your standards for hotels are, rental car rules, company credit card (hopefully), time off policy, pay and advancement of course, cash float (hopefully), how they process expences, how they give out per-diems, all these things you should ask about to get an idea how they feel about these things. If they want you in the cheapest hotels, washing cars, and do not have an organized system for non-flying duties I'd decline. I'd also add that they will only attract people that believe this kind of treatment is acceptable. Are they better pilots? Will they take care of the clients and be happy about it? If they say all pilots are the same then it's probably not a great place to work for. Now I do realize that you can only be as choosy as your options, but don't sell yourselves short. Set up early what your standards are, that you won't go back and mix drinks or pour coffee in cruise, stuff like that. They will respect you for it. If we did that to our guys they'd think they have amatures. You have to say that you're professionals and you need to be treated as such. You have to let them know you're a extremely hard worker, but won't mess around with car washing and such.

So in closing, I believe you should set a standard. That way at least they'll think you're worth it.

Just my 2-cents

[burned1]

I flew for a small outfit in Southern Indiana which flew Citation Excel, Ultra and Mustang. The chief pilot was absolutely incompetent on so many levels. As a new pilot I was never able to bring up issues. Issues were simply brushed under the rug. I was quite puzzled by the incompetence but soon understood that the chief pilot’s goal in life is to sit under a tree and drink lemonade or golf. Anything mechanical which requires thought or effort was swept under the rug. Anything which remotely represented a problem was squashed as quickly as possible and ignored.

For instance our operation was on a 5000’ runway. I noticed most of the pilots would come in low under glide path scraping the corn to land. I asked several of them at night to please bring it back up to the vasi. I brought up in a meeting that you could make shorter landings by coming in on glide path. I was told they are “Falcon” pilots and I was a “King Air” pilot and didn’t know what I was talking about. My chief pilot indicated I need to keep those things to myself.

While returning empty (no passengers) from a trip one day. I was pilot flying, my chief pilot was copilot. I was coming in on glide path. My chief pilot said “This is a problem!”. I said “What is a problem”. He said “coming in on glide path is just too high for these jets! You need to drop below glide path to make a short field runway or else you will over fly the runway!”……My jaw kind of dropped. I said “what if I come in high?”. He said “you will over shoot.

So I said, “lets see”. I brought the Ultra up for a steeper approach. As I flared from the steep approach the airspeed dropped off almost immediately, thumped it and barley touched the reverses before I had to release them for speed. The airplane used less then ½ runway.

Filing the supplies the chief pilot was mad. “I’m a *&&^% ((** Falcon pilot and I don’t need an E6B to know your wrong!!! I am telling you I want you to fly below glide path approaches and I expect you to do so!”….I was….Stunned!

Over and over again I saw guys come in low, drag out a landing like they were on an air hockey table, struggle with 10kt crosswinds, it was pathetic!

Before getting the type ratting in the Excel, I was on a trip with the chief pilot in the Excel. This was about my 4th trip in the Excel and my first trip with the chief pilot in that aircraft. Many of the guys like to keep the APU running on departure for air conditioning; they wouldn’t go 2 minutes with out A/C or a cold drink (or a free drink).

We departed Midway airport in Chicago heading south with no passengers. I looked back and could see some smoke coming from the back which appeared to be coming from ventilation. It also smelled like smoke I had had before when a seal leaks into the bleed air. It was clearly not electrical.

I asked the chief pilot one simple question; I asked if I should kill the APU, close a bleed and run a checklist. I may not have a type ratting in the airplane but it is an airplane like others I have flown. I have been completely through the aircraft manual and was more up on procedures then many of the pilots there.

The chief pilot responded with “I am a GOD D%$# Falcon Pilot! You’re a King Air Pilot! Let me handle this!” With his hands shaking he made a 180 as he keyed the mike and declared an emergency. With stormy weather he dropped down bellow the clouds scud running back to Midway airport. Being low with weather and haze I was scrambling trying to get the airport back into the FMS.

I had lots of thoughts going through my head. I could defy the chief pilot and turn off the APU and a bleed and this charade would be over; but then again so would my position at the company. On the other hand I have a chief pilot who is most clearly nervous and visibly shaking over a situation so I figured I would do my best to support him in anything I can help him with. I spoke only when asked and did exactly what was asked and did my best not be a distraction so some one obviously having a problem coping.

The emergency was not the smoke; the emergency was the guy flying!

We scud run back to Midway, located final. On final he asked me to shut off APU. I did and the Smoke quit. At that point he realized it was APU.

As we taxied in and shut down all the fire crews from the south side of Chicago surrounded us. He told me to go handle the fire crews he was going to call his boss on the cell phone to let him know what happened.

I looked out to a fire truck convention. I was embarrassed to actually tell them we don’t have a problem. We had fire crews wanting to bust open panels and fill them with water and foam, everyone yelling, a crazy madhouse of people. One by one people were rushing me asking if they could bust open a panel, fill it with fluid, one lady rushed up to me and asked how much fuel we had. I told her 3,400lbs. She turned and screamed to some one “34,000lbs!” I did not correct her as the next person rushed me with a question. I figured as chaotic as everything was, when they saw that report they would realize they would need to come to me (us) for accurate information. After 15 minutes I got rid of the emergency personnel, checked the hell hold and the engines for anything obvious. I walked back in and asked the chief pilot what next? Do you want to get it checked out? He said no, let’s get back home. He never left his seat!

We fired up and called for clearance. Thunderstorms were moving in and we sat there for an hour with engines running (not APU). He wanted to be ready as soon as he got the clearance. I think he was embarrassed. He didn’t say much. We discussed getting more fuel; we should of. Landing HNB we were well below our reserves.

Most of the guys felt a sense of entitlement at the company. One guy came home late and was complaining. They let him get a sandwich on company card on the way home now he does it every time he comes home. On the way home he stops by and buys his dinner at subway on the company card.

This sense of entitlement has been difficult for me as I was always waiting on the other crew. As I was waiting to leave one day from our overnight, the partner I had showed up in the lobby 15 min late; as typical. As we drove back to the airport we we missed a turn and ended up another 10 min late. When we did a preflight on the Citation Mustang the right engine was not showing oil. You know the drill, pull it out, run the starter see if it shows. Well he called maintenance because there was no time (because we were late). He just wanted to fill the case with oil; and did.

We returned home with about 2x capacity of oil. The following flight the engine failed enroute with another crew. Now the report was bearings failed in the Mustang due to turbine washed but wouldn’t you like to know you did everything right; everything you could; not a self serving primadana crew who thinks the world revolves around them and their golf!

Take the engine failure, when we discussed the engine failure in the meeting, the crew lost the engine in the Citation Mustang at 28,000. They were not able to maintain altitude yet they never declared an emergency. It’s darn lucky the controllers pretty much did it for them. Instead of declaring an emergency, unable to maintain altitude, they were just begging for lower as they were falling 500 feet below their altitude.

When we asked why they didn’t declare an emergency, the chief pilot stepped in “Now people, everyone does things a little different” just to get the attention off of anything that might take away from his golf game.

I have 20 more stories just like these!

Incompetent! I was let go for no reason!!! I was crushed when I was let go but after time I am thankful I am no longer tied to such a poorly ran flight department. They will run one off a runway one day!

kimball int

This post has been edited by burned1: 02 May 2011 - 05:52 PM

[flyingbrownboxes]

burned1, on 02 May 2011 - 05:42 PM, said:

I flew for a small outfit in Southern Indiana which flew Citation Excel, Ultra and Mustang. The chief pilot was absolutely incompetent on so many levels. As a new pilot I was never able to bring up issues. Issues were simply brushed under the rug. I was quite puzzled by the incompetence but soon understood that the chief pilot’s goal in life is to sit under a tree and drink lemonade or golf. Anything mechanical which requires thought or effort was swept under the rug. Anything which remotely represented a problem was squashed as quickly as possible and ignored.

For instance our operation was on a 5000’ runway. I noticed most of the pilots would come in low under glide path scraping the corn to land. I asked several of them at night to please bring it back up to the vasi. I brought up in a meeting that you could make shorter landings by coming in on glide path. I was told they are “Falcon” pilots and I was a “King Air” pilot and didn’t know what I was talking about. My chief pilot indicated I need to keep those things to myself.

While returning empty (no passengers) from a trip one day. I was pilot flying, my chief pilot was copilot. I was coming in on glide path. My chief pilot said “This is a problem!”. I said “What is a problem”. He said “coming in on glide path is just too high for these jets! You need to drop below glide path to make a short field runway or else you will over fly the runway!”……My jaw kind of dropped. I said “what if I come in high?”. He said “you will over shoot.

So I said, “lets see”. I brought the Ultra up for a steeper approach. As I flared from the steep approach the airspeed dropped off almost immediately, thumped it and barley touched the reverses before I had to release them for speed. The airplane used less then ½ runway.

Filing the supplies the chief pilot was mad. “I’m a *&&^% ((** Falcon pilot and I don’t need an E6B to know your wrong!!! I am telling you I want you to fly below glide path approaches and I expect you to do so!”….I was….Stunned!

Over and over again I saw guys come in low, drag out a landing like they were on an air hockey table, struggle with 10kt crosswinds, it was pathetic!

Before getting the type ratting in the Excel, I was on a trip with the chief pilot in the Excel. This was about my 4th trip in the Excel and my first trip with the chief pilot in that aircraft. Many of the guys like to keep the APU running on departure for air conditioning; they wouldn’t go 2 minutes with out A/C or a cold drink (or a free drink).

We departed Midway airport in Chicago heading south with no passengers. I looked back and could see some smoke coming from the back which appeared to be coming from ventilation. It also smelled like smoke I had had before when a seal leaks into the bleed air. It was clearly not electrical.

I asked the chief pilot one simple question; I asked if I should kill the APU, close a bleed and run a checklist. I may not have a type ratting in the airplane but it is an airplane like others I have flown. I have been completely through the aircraft manual and was more up on procedures then many of the pilots there.

The chief pilot responded with “I am a GOD D%$# Falcon Pilot! You’re a King Air Pilot! Let me handle this!” With his hands shaking he made a 180 as he keyed the mike and declared an emergency. With stormy weather he dropped down bellow the clouds scud running back to Midway airport. Being low with weather and haze I was scrambling trying to get the airport back into the FMS.

I had lots of thoughts going through my head. I could defy the chief pilot and turn off the APU and a bleed and this charade would be over; but then again so would my position at the company. On the other hand I have a chief pilot who is most clearly nervous and visibly shaking over a situation so I figured I would do my best to support him in anything I can help him with. I spoke only when asked and did exactly what was asked and did my best not be a distraction so some one obviously having a problem coping.

The emergency was not the smoke; the emergency was the guy flying!

We scud run back to Midway, located final. On final he asked me to shut off APU. I did and the Smoke quit. At that point he realized it was APU.

As we taxied in and shut down all the fire crews from the south side of Chicago surrounded us. He told me to go handle the fire crews he was going to call his boss on the cell phone to let him know what happened.

I looked out to a fire truck convention. I was embarrassed to actually tell them we don’t have a problem. We had fire crews wanting to bust open panels and fill them with water and foam, everyone yelling, a crazy madhouse of people. One by one people were rushing me asking if they could bust open a panel, fill it with fluid, one lady rushed up to me and asked how much fuel we had. I told her 3,400lbs. She turned and screamed to some one “34,000lbs!” I did not correct her as the next person rushed me with a question. I figured as chaotic as everything was, when they saw that report they would realize they would need to come to me (us) for accurate information. After 15 minutes I got rid of the emergency personnel, checked the hell hold and the engines for anything obvious. I walked back in and asked the chief pilot what next? Do you want to get it checked out? He said no, let’s get back home. He never left his seat!

We fired up and called for clearance. Thunderstorms were moving in and we sat there for an hour with engines running (not APU). He wanted to be ready as soon as he got the clearance. I think he was embarrassed. He didn’t say much. We discussed getting more fuel; we should of. Landing HNB we were well below our reserves.

Most of the guys felt a sense of entitlement at the company. One guy came home late and was complaining. They let him get a sandwich on company card on the way home now he does it every time he comes home. On the way home he stops by and buys his dinner at subway on the company card.

This sense of entitlement has been difficult for me as I was always waiting on the other crew. As I was waiting to leave one day from our overnight, the partner I had showed up in the lobby 15 min late; as typical. As we drove back to the airport we we missed a turn and ended up another 10 min late. When we did a preflight on the Citation Mustang the right engine was not showing oil. You know the drill, pull it out, run the starter see if it shows. Well he called maintenance because there was no time (because we were late). He just wanted to fill the case with oil; and did.

We returned home with about 2x capacity of oil. The following flight the engine failed enroute with another crew. Now the report was bearings failed in the Mustang due to turbine washed but wouldn’t you like to know you did everything right; everything you could; not a self serving primadana crew who thinks the world revolves around them and their golf!

Take the engine failure, when we discussed the engine failure in the meeting, the crew lost the engine in the Citation Mustang at 28,000. They were not able to maintain altitude yet they never declared an emergency. It’s darn lucky the controllers pretty much did it for them. Instead of declaring an emergency, unable to maintain altitude, they were just begging for lower as they were falling 500 feet below their altitude.

When we asked why they didn’t declare an emergency, the chief pilot stepped in “Now people, everyone does things a little different” just to get the attention off of anything that might take away from his golf game.

I have 20 more stories just like these!

Incompetent! I was let go for no reason!!! I was crushed when I was let go but after time I am thankful I am no longer tied to such a poorly ran flight department. They will run one off a runway one day!

kimball int

I know the chief pilot you speak of in HNB. He is known as a marginal pilot at best with at least one FAA violation on his certificate. He is, however, a professional a$$ kisser. That he has down to a science even if he is a piss poor pilot.

[crazydog]

burned1, on 02 May 2011 - 05:42 PM, said:

I flew for a small outfit in Southern Indiana which flew Citation Excel, Ultra and Mustang. The chief pilot was absolutely incompetent on so many levels. As a new pilot I was never able to bring up issues. Issues were simply brushed under the rug. I was quite puzzled by the incompetence but soon understood that the chief pilot’s goal in life is to sit under a tree and drink lemonade or golf. Anything mechanical which requires thought or effort was swept under the rug. Anything which remotely represented a problem was squashed as quickly as possible and ignored.

For instance our operation was on a 5000’ runway. I noticed most of the pilots would come in low under glide path scraping the corn to land. I asked several of them at night to please bring it back up to the vasi. I brought up in a meeting that you could make shorter landings by coming in on glide path. I was told they are “Falcon” pilots and I was a “King Air” pilot and didn’t know what I was talking about. My chief pilot indicated I need to keep those things to myself.

While returning empty (no passengers) from a trip one day. I was pilot flying, my chief pilot was copilot. I was coming in on glide path. My chief pilot said “This is a problem!”. I said “What is a problem”. He said “coming in on glide path is just too high for these jets! You need to drop below glide path to make a short field runway or else you will over fly the runway!”……My jaw kind of dropped. I said “what if I come in high?”. He said “you will over shoot.

So I said, “lets see”. I brought the Ultra up for a steeper approach. As I flared from the steep approach the airspeed dropped off almost immediately, thumped it and barley touched the reverses before I had to release them for speed. The airplane used less then ½ runway.

Filing the supplies the chief pilot was mad. “I’m a *&&^% ((** Falcon pilot and I don’t need an E6B to know your wrong!!! I am telling you I want you to fly below glide path approaches and I expect you to do so!”….I was….Stunned!

Over and over again I saw guys come in low, drag out a landing like they were on an air hockey table, struggle with 10kt crosswinds, it was pathetic!

Before getting the type ratting in the Excel, I was on a trip with the chief pilot in the Excel. This was about my 4th trip in the Excel and my first trip with the chief pilot in that aircraft. Many of the guys like to keep the APU running on departure for air conditioning; they wouldn’t go 2 minutes with out A/C or a cold drink (or a free drink).

We departed Midway airport in Chicago heading south with no passengers. I looked back and could see some smoke coming from the back which appeared to be coming from ventilation. It also smelled like smoke I had had before when a seal leaks into the bleed air. It was clearly not electrical.

I asked the chief pilot one simple question; I asked if I should kill the APU, close a bleed and run a checklist. I may not have a type ratting in the airplane but it is an airplane like others I have flown. I have been completely through the aircraft manual and was more up on procedures then many of the pilots there.

The chief pilot responded with “I am a GOD D%$# Falcon Pilot! You’re a King Air Pilot! Let me handle this!” With his hands shaking he made a 180 as he keyed the mike and declared an emergency. With stormy weather he dropped down bellow the clouds scud running back to Midway airport. Being low with weather and haze I was scrambling trying to get the airport back into the FMS.

I had lots of thoughts going through my head. I could defy the chief pilot and turn off the APU and a bleed and this charade would be over; but then again so would my position at the company. On the other hand I have a chief pilot who is most clearly nervous and visibly shaking over a situation so I figured I would do my best to support him in anything I can help him with. I spoke only when asked and did exactly what was asked and did my best not be a distraction so some one obviously having a problem coping.

The emergency was not the smoke; the emergency was the guy flying!

We scud run back to Midway, located final. On final he asked me to shut off APU. I did and the Smoke quit. At that point he realized it was APU.

As we taxied in and shut down all the fire crews from the south side of Chicago surrounded us. He told me to go handle the fire crews he was going to call his boss on the cell phone to let him know what happened.

I looked out to a fire truck convention. I was embarrassed to actually tell them we don’t have a problem. We had fire crews wanting to bust open panels and fill them with water and foam, everyone yelling, a crazy madhouse of people. One by one people were rushing me asking if they could bust open a panel, fill it with fluid, one lady rushed up to me and asked how much fuel we had. I told her 3,400lbs. She turned and screamed to some one “34,000lbs!” I did not correct her as the next person rushed me with a question. I figured as chaotic as everything was, when they saw that report they would realize they would need to come to me (us) for accurate information. After 15 minutes I got rid of the emergency personnel, checked the hell hold and the engines for anything obvious. I walked back in and asked the chief pilot what next? Do you want to get it checked out? He said no, let’s get back home. He never left his seat!

We fired up and called for clearance. Thunderstorms were moving in and we sat there for an hour with engines running (not APU). He wanted to be ready as soon as he got the clearance. I think he was embarrassed. He didn’t say much. We discussed getting more fuel; we should of. Landing HNB we were well below our reserves.

Most of the guys felt a sense of entitlement at the company. One guy came home late and was complaining. They let him get a sandwich on company card on the way home now he does it every time he comes home. On the way home he stops by and buys his dinner at subway on the company card.

This sense of entitlement has been difficult for me as I was always waiting on the other crew. As I was waiting to leave one day from our overnight, the partner I had showed up in the lobby 15 min late; as typical. As we drove back to the airport we we missed a turn and ended up another 10 min late. When we did a preflight on the Citation Mustang the right engine was not showing oil. You know the drill, pull it out, run the starter see if it shows. Well he called maintenance because there was no time (because we were late). He just wanted to fill the case with oil; and did.

We returned home with about 2x capacity of oil. The following flight the engine failed enroute with another crew. Now the report was bearings failed in the Mustang due to turbine washed but wouldn’t you like to know you did everything right; everything you could; not a self serving primadana crew who thinks the world revolves around them and their golf!

Take the engine failure, when we discussed the engine failure in the meeting, the crew lost the engine in the Citation Mustang at 28,000. They were not able to maintain altitude yet they never declared an emergency. It’s darn lucky the controllers pretty much did it for them. Instead of declaring an emergency, unable to maintain altitude, they were just begging for lower as they were falling 500 feet below their altitude.

When we asked why they didn’t declare an emergency, the chief pilot stepped in “Now people, everyone does things a little different” just to get the attention off of anything that might take away from his golf game.

I have 20 more stories just like these!

Incompetent! I was let go for no reason!!! I was crushed when I was let go but after time I am thankful I am no longer tied to such a poorly ran flight department. They will run one off a runway one day!

Companies like that petrify me and ruin the reputation of the aviation industry! Companies like that lead to accidents such as the “Platinum Jet Management” Challenger 600 which skidded off the runway at Teterboro in 2005. Trials all the way up to the CEO of the company. The company is now shut down, prosecution and lawsuits will be flying for the foreseeable future.

All you can do is run away as fast as you can. If the FAA was ever involved the events described, that company would be long shut down.

Flying below glide slope approaches is…..unbelievable. Any newbee pilot will tell you the steeper the approach, the more energy bled off in the flair. To come in below glide slope, below accepted terrain clearance is specifically illegal. It is also specifically illegal since, not being on glidepath is considered “not a stabilized approach”. A pilot operating in this manner would be grounds for license suspension. A chief pilot advocating this would be criminal.

This alone does not begin to address the increase runway distance and a flair which is more difficult to manage. With a low approach, a flair has lost a tool which dissipates energy cause it to extend substantially longer. This means you spend more time in grond effect, fighting crosswinds and your susceptibility to runway mishaps is greatly increased. The chief pilot must not be a well rounded pilot to not understand this; this is entry level stuff here! The increase risk because of his/her lack of understanding is…..inexcusable.

As far as the incident with the bleed air, that sounds like someone with no training in advanced aircraft or even that airplane. Bleed air leaks are nothing to sneeze at. If you have smoke from a bleed air leak, immediate action can be vital to the safety of the flight. Not to contain a bleed air leak, not closing bleed sources and running the checklist can be a mortal mistake. To turn tail and run back to the airport of departure like a scared school girl, without running the required procedures outlined by the aircraft manufacturer and training can be fatal.

Bleed air leaks can be hot enough to melt metal. A loose bleed airline in an engine compartment can bring down an airplane. We are trained for a reason and to abandon all training, to run like a chicken without action is unacceptable.

If the FAA had been involved, this person would have likely lost his type ratings as well as many other ratings. When someone is lost in an airplane and fails to respond to appropriate emergency procedures, they typically loose their type ratings and many of their other ratings. He/she would be lucky to hold onto a private pilot certificate with a 90 day suspension.

After all that, after declaring an emergency, shutting down airspace, diverting aircraft, launching countless emergency vehicles, you would think that emergency would require a look over by maintenance personal. If the chief pilot did not leave his seat before flying home, he/she should not have a license to drive a school bus!

I had a friend flying for a company where another pilot took many things personal. The cockpit was often divided. Since he was very junior to the person of conflict, he tried to be quiet and get along. Circumstances would not have it. There was no doubt a personality conflict and the SR pilot brought the conflict into the cockpit. He would do things like not inform him of situations, not brief him on critical information and take charge of the cockpit when he was not PIC.

My friend went to the chief pilot who would not do anything. The chief pilot was to chicken to stir the pot so to speak. My friend was in a bind. He knew they could not continue to operate in a situation unsafe and illegal. Hell it was illegal for him to continue letting the guy be this way. He finally filed a report with the FAA. The SR pilot lost all his ratings and was bumped back to a private pilot with a 90 day suspension. I am not sure if the chief pilot was suspended but because of the FAA involvement the chief pilot was let go.

The pilot who doubled the oil in the engine then flew home sounds like a union pilot. There are a few of them in the industry and they are hard on equipment. A lot could be said for poor judgment there but to allow that kind of thing sounds like an organizational problem.

As far as the engine failure that ensued on the next flight, if the crew was loosing altitude and did not declare an emergency, this is something that should have been discussed as a group. They were lucky they got a helpful controller. A large percentage of controllers would not have been so helpful and simply violated them for altitude deviations.

If you cannot maintain a clearance, the controllers NEED you to declare an emergency so they can GIVE YOU PRIORITY and so when a specific parameter cannot be met; such as aircraft separation, there is an avenue to allow closer then normal separation. Should you NOT declare an emergency and you CANNOT maintain your altitude, YOU WILL BE VIOLATED!!!

You should be glad you don’t work there. You may have been committing several violations by staying there! These flight departments always fail and it is never pretty!

This post has been edited by crazydog: 21 July 2011 - 03:51 PM

[burned1]

What is interesting, we were required to fill out evaluations of our department. I gave the department and chief pilot low marks; for good reason. Evidently they were more interested in getting rid of the person who would not do things wrong, illegal (below glide slope approaches as example). Get rid of the noise instead of fix the problem. Not once were serious problems taken seriously. It is all about how you get along, take the shaft and smile while doing so.

It wasn't too long after I filled out my evaluation of our department, I was let go. That's not what I call a well rounded or safe environment to fly in.