[luismanuel_82]

I have been hearing good things about the Mesa Pilot Development program does any one, that has completed the program have an idea of how much money would it take to complete the entire Mesa Pilot Development program? I know flight schools are quite expensive. Being that flight training is so expensive how do pilots finishing these programs manage to pay out their debt, if they are starting out with a salary close to the poverty line annual salary? Any comments or suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

[John Jester]

Mesa has their program to fill seats in their airplanes and get your money in some cases in the process. The major problem with Mesa is they are near the bottom of the industry. I would stay away from this program. There are lots of fine schools out there that will train you. You should focus on making sure you have the best training possible then go instruct. I know many people don't like this but you will learn a lot from your students. All most all of the regional airlines are dropping their requirements. If you are into speed and have the money to spend then I'd go to All ATPS. They are not associated with just a single carrier. They focus on getting the ratings with a minimum of fuss. The dealing I've had with them are good. They don't act like something they are not. With that said All ATPS is not for people who can't do things independantly. You will need to spend lots of time studying on your own. If you want to enter the airlines it would be good to do a fast paced program that you treat like a job. The industry isn't what it use to be. The days are long and the schedulees suck. If you love, and I mean love, flying you will like it.

I won't go in to the issues with Mesa and why I say they are at the bottom but I don't believe that Mesa and similar carriers are what is best for the overall quality of the airline industry. If you go there you will need to be careful and protect yourself.

Hope this helps and I wish you good luck in your quest to fly.

Regards,

John

[jet bus driver]

total rip off which leads to a crappy job (lots of tension twix management and the pilot group). why would someone do this when they can instruct and thus learn even more about flying while getting paid? a regional FO makes $18k/yr for their first two years then maybe $40k. you make more instructing full time.

[chris]

I have been hearing good things about the Mesa Pilot Development program does any one, that has completed the program have an idea of how much money would it take to complete the entire Mesa Pilot Development program? I know flight schools are quite expensive. Being that flight training is so expensive how do pilots finishing these programs manage to pay out their debt, if they are starting out with a salary close to the poverty line annual salary? Any comments or suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Mesa is a great program! my son went thur it, also I now of many airline pilots sons that have done the same, so if the airline pilots that have been flying for 20 plus years are sending there sons to Mesa that must say something. I guess that most of the guys talking bad about Mesa think your first job will pay ??????? think again I now of none.

[chris]

Mesa is a great program! My son went thur it , also I now of many airline pilots sons that have done the same, that was how I found out about Mesa, So if the 20 year pilots with the major airlines send there son's there it says something about the program.

I guess most of the people taking bad about Mesa think there first just is going to pay ?????????? dollars I can't think of any.

Hope that helps
any questions email me
Chris

[spitfire1500pilot]

I worked for Mesa for 7.5 years. I would check out nthe website www.mesahub.com to get a feeling of how things are there. You can join for free.

[overspeed]

They say the program costs about $40,000 but you will pay at least $60,000 if you already have your private license and a whole lot more if you start as a zero timer. You had also better be on the top of your game, as it has an over 50% washout rate!!! The training is good but you won't be treated like a customer, you'll be treated like your in the military and if you make waves they will make sure you washout. Then after it's all over you get an interview, NOT A JOB!!! Although many do get hired there are some that don't, and then you have a crappy job at MESA that you can't make enough to pay the rent let alone your student loans until you upgrade in the jet. Best advice ever is to get your flight instructor ticket and instruct at San Juan as you will make about $50,000 a year instructing in good aircraft and then when you have your time go get a job at Skywest, you will not be disappointed!! Then don't go along with the hype at Skywest to bring ALPA on the property, they will only take your money and do nothing just like they've done for the Mesa pilots for 10 years!!!

[acflyer]

Mesa is a great program! my son went thur it, also I now of many airline pilots sons that have done the same, so if the airline pilots that have been flying for 20 plus years are sending there sons to Mesa that must say something. I guess that most of the guys talking bad about Mesa think your first job will pay ??????? think again I now of none.

Not the expierence I had! You can attribute some of their "washout" rate to students wising up and getting out of the program. After about 18 months of the MPD runaround, I quit MPD (Ariz State), changed my major, and went to a local flight school down the road and paid HALF of what I would have at MPD. It took a lot more independent study, but is was worth it! I also got a respectable 4 year degree out of the deal. Now I've got 1,500 hrs and am single pilot typed in a twin-turbine getting 100% PIC time for +$40,000 a year (not bad for the first 9 months on my first job). Good jobs ARE available if you look for them, but Mesa will tell you the best thing to shoot for is a low wage CRJ or Dash-8 F/O job with a 12 to 24 month upgrade. Don't listen to those who say you must "pay dues" to work your way up, even if they say they are in "the industry." You most certainly do not.

MPD will promise you an interview and you'll probably get one, but remember, an interview isn't a job (why would you want a job with Mesa anyway?). For the amount of money they ask for and the politics you have to put up with, I would NOT call Mesa a great program; maybe average at best. If you're looking for a 4 year degree in 'professional flight' and your ratings, go to UND...it is an infinately better program.

PM me if you have questions. I'd be happy to give you my opinion. Be sure to get as many opinions as you can from all different sides and make up your own mind. Good luck!

This post has been edited by acflyer: 23 April 2007 - 03:48 PM

[Blastoff]

Let me start out by saying im a current student at MPD in Farmington. I agree with not going to ASU for the mpd program (reasons) 1. 4 years of full time classes plus flying in a highly distracting partying environment. (dont argue.. i believe ASU was the number 3 party school this year) 2. Instead of flying the high performance/ complex A36 Bonanza's you start out in piddly pipers. (yes i said piddly 3 of them stopped by FMN last month and looked like cracker jack toys next to our bonanzas and barons.) 3. who wants to be in PHX where fying during mid day summers is more punishment than fun. (120 degrees no thanks) that would be my biggest reasons to avoid going to the ASU program. (I'm not saying its a bad part of MPD because i believe all the MPD schools are extremely high quality training programs.) Now for my experience so far at the Farmington MPD program. I started flying in 172's at another school prior to attending mesa i would suggest anyone who is thinking of the program get at least 20hrs in the cessnas before coming. The first weekend your here they throw you into NICE frasca sims to prepare you for the bonanza. After about two hours of proving your competence they let you get behind the controls of a A36 Bonanza... any other schools out there doing that? didnt think so. I believe the only reason that four people out of my class of thirty washed out ( no where near 50%) (stop making up numbers) would be due to the fact that they werent prepared well enough for the faster more complex airplanes. Lets look at another fairytale being splashed around forums all over the net involving mpd. After graduation the past years worth of classes have been hired 100%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mesa NEEDS pilots... As for the cost of the program i came in with my pvt and will leave spending right at $60000 add another $8000 from pvt and you get an FO with a paycheck. As for the length of the program its advertised as 15 months im on track for 11 months. (the school is trying to get people through even faster!!!) STOP bashing mesa as a company! the payscale (if you stay at least 6 yrs) is super competitive you may not be making big bucks at the beginning but compare the yearly raise of an FO at mesa to any company its all relative. I propose a challenge to people interested in becoming pilots find a friend one of you come to mpd at fmn the other do what ever and be an instructor... in five years call each other see whos a captain with a maor regional and then who just completed their first airline interview... NUFF SAID <--- MPD Bashers

[overspeed]

I'm sorry Blastoff that Mesa hasn't crushed your spirit and every love you had for flying, OH Wait, you only have a couple hundred hours and you haven't worked for Mesa. Please be quiet about things you have no clue about. Mesa doesn't give a crap about you getting a job, all they want is their planes flown from A to B so they get paid. Let's just wait until you've worked for them for 8 years, been displaced 8 times, filed bankruptcy, got violated, fell asleep on approach after 6 days of working 14 to 16 hours a day and then only getting paid for a fraction of the time you spent at work. Wait till your a senior Captain and you're only getting 11 days off a month and you haven't seen your family for weeks. Wait till you've been junior assigned to fly on your brother's wedding, and when your baby daughter dies, they'll actually give you a week off. Wait till your vacation's are all cancelled and they don't believe you when your sick and make you get a doctor's note like a 1st grader. Wait till they call you 8 times in one night on a reduced rest overnight to tell you the same thing the last tracker just told you. Wait till you get that paycheck that is $600 short because they screwed you out of you're junior assigment pay on your day off and it takes you six months to recover the money they owe you. Wait till they call your wife asking where you are at while you're on a trip and scare the crap out of her or make her think you're cheating on her because they aren't smart enough to know you're actually flying one of their planes at the moment. Wait till they force you to fly an unairworthy plane with the threat of your job being held against you. Wait till they close your domicile overnight without nary a e-mail or anything from the company telling you it's going to happen. Wait till you get to bid a 95 hour line and after all the cancellations and no pay protection you get paid your minimum 70. My friends, this is the truth!!! You can't make this up. This will be your life and so much worse if you chose to work for Mesa. I could get hundreds of testimonials from pilots that work or have worked for Mesa that confirm everything on this page. I don't mean to scare you, but call me back in a couple years on line and you will apologize for saying that I stretched the truth. The truth must be told!!!!

[Blastoff]

Hey whoa im not the biggest fan of the company dont get me wrong... i was comparing the two schools. I wouldnt wish JO's wrath on my worst enemy. It's just a stepping stone not even to majors but for a lateral move to another regional. The one thing the company has gotten right is their flight school!

[poor_pilot]

I have been hearing good things about the Mesa Pilot Development program does any one, that has completed the program have an idea of how much money would it take to complete the entire Mesa Pilot Development program? I know flight schools are quite expensive. Being that flight training is so expensive how do pilots finishing these programs manage to pay out their debt, if they are starting out with a salary close to the poverty line annual salary? Any comments or suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

I am a MPD (AZ State) graduate. It is very expensive, about $60k-$80k, from 0 time up. But they are not the most expensive. Places like American Flyers would be way more than that if you did the same type of program on your own.

MPD has it's downfalls. Someone said that it was like being in the military. At times, it is. But, that can also be a good thing if you are coming out of high school and have not experienced the college life before. The 50% washout rate that was spoken of is also true. I would venture to say though that a lot of those people were coming out of high school or just didn't really want what they signed up for. Some of the students I knew didn't even want to be pilots. Their fathers were pilots and wanted that for their sons. That does not make for a good student.

Also, don't discount the 4-year degree; it's priceless. If you go to MPD San Juan you will only have an Associates. You will pay about the same amount for flight training and you'll still need to finish the 4-year on your own to get into a major.

Someone also said not to believe that you can get a good job without instructing or "paying your dues". That is extremely misleading. Lucky people or people who know people can get one of those jobs. If you do it right at Mesa, you will finish your CFI/CFII about the beginning of your Junior year. Then if you are in good standing and they are hiring you can instruct part time for them making pretty decent money for an in-school job. By the time you are finished you will feel much better about yourself as a pilot and actually be ready to go to a regional.

If you do end up going to MPD I would suggest doing it their way, instructing for a good year and a half, going to Mesa for about a year and then get out. By that time you will at least have enough time to go to a good regional or maybe a low-end major.

Hope this helps.

[emeraldpilot]

This is my advice when it comes to flight training:

1. Buy your own airplane- a C-152 or PA28-140/150 are good examples. Personally I bought a PA28 140/150. Why do this? Scheduling never becomes an issue, aircraft will stay in better condition than most rentals ( no other students slamming it into the ground ). You will also gain valuable experience in aircraft ownership and management. As soon as you finish your commercial checkride and you are working on obtaining your CFI put the aircraft up for sale. (I bought my cherokee for 30k and sold it for 36k which covered all the required maintenance costs.)

2. Fly every day if you can. You will retain knowledge better and will advance through your private and instrument quite rapidly.

3. after you obtain your Instrument rating file and fly IFR at least every other time.

4. when building time and training for commercial alternate flying from left and right seat. Being comfortable in the right seat will be very helpful in obtaining your CFI right after your commercial checkride.

5. instruct for at least 500 hours. You will be amazed at how much you will learn when teaching your students.

6. Don't be a know-it-all type. I remember looking back and thinking I knew most everything at 500 hours TT. It wasn't until I reached about 1500 TT that I realized I have a lot to learn. If you stay humble and are eager to learn from those with experience you will do well.

7. Don't ever pay money into a first officer program where you are required to pay money up front for a job. From what I heard one could ascertain that the mesa pilot develpment program kind of fits the "pay to play program" because of the high initial cost of the program and the regional jet sim training. You do not need this pre RJ sim training to get hired.

8. get your four year degree in something other than "commercial pilot". Make sure you get a degree as it will offer something to fall back on if you have health issues or mass furloughing occurs again.

9. I recommend flying corporate 135 or 91 and avoid the slave labor regional carriers. Once you build enough jet time on the corporate side you can apply directly to the major carriers. This will also give you more options later on in a furluogh situation as you will have contacts in corporate plus you have the experince to get back in it. It is much easier for pilots to go from corporate to airlines than from airlines to corporate.

Happy flying

[FCME47]

I would not bother with any pay for training program....regional airlines are hiring pilots with under 500 hours. Best bet is get your commercial instrument and CFI. Teach yourself as you teach others, you will be up to date on FARs, aerodynamics etc. Build some PIC time for future use. Mesa will probably hire you with 500 hours total time.

[AlaskaOps]

Mesa has had over +400 pilots leave this year. Lots headed to other regionals to escape Mesa. The QOL is awful, the management doesn't follow work rules, and other airline pilots frown apon them. They are lowering the standards for pilots and IMHO would be a big mistake for you to spend $60,000 to go to a company that will wipe the floor with you.

~J

[787 driver]

This is a great website describing why Mesa Pilot Development Sucks. Check it out and don't say you weren't ever warned!

[MongoLike]

I have been hearing good things about the Mesa Pilot Development program does any one, that has completed the program have an idea of how much money would it take to complete the entire Mesa Pilot Development program? I know flight schools are quite expensive. Being that flight training is so expensive how do pilots finishing these programs manage to pay out their debt, if they are starting out with a salary close to the poverty line annual salary? Any comments or suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Louis asked a question about Mesa training, and I thought I might give my perspective. My background is listed on the post "F.N.G.", Louis, so you'll know where I come from.

Last year I attended Sun 'n Fun airshow in Lakeland with a couple 767 pilot friends, and for giggles I talked to the guys at the MPD booth. Wow !! were they on speed or something!! They gave me the impression they were used ice salesmen from Alaska. Then the phone calls started. I kid you not, I did NOT give them my phone #, just filled out a card with my address and they apparently called information for my #. Anyway, as I walked away from them, the airline pilots I'm with heckled me to no end (as good pilot/friends do) and decided it was a Scabtastic move for me to go to Mesa. No B.S., the ONLY pilots they have ever turned away from their jumpseats were Eastern scabs and Mesa pilots. This is not hearsay or second hand. Other pilots may not be so concerned about who has the priviledge of riding for free in their cockpits.

Add to that the fact that after you train there, you pay another LARGE fee to fly for them. And All they offer is an interview with ONLY Mesa? I may be a little slow, but ask yourself if this is the best or only course of action FOR YOU.

If you sincerely are interested in training for the airlines, and have $60k+ to blow, is there any other training company out there that you like?Close to your home? Part 141 so you can get loans more easily?Remember, it's your money, and unless cost is no object, do you buy the best training you can afford?

In my limited experience, there are always a couple companies that make it to the top of the heap, and those few names always come up. FlightSafety (their reputation is without equal, since MAJOR airlines turn to them when their sims are full). ALLATPS (ALOT of military and civilian pilots I know have trained there over the years, and if you get your private first, they have a 90 Fasttrack program for $55k...90 days, not 10-12 months @MPD) If you're young and have LOTS of money to tap Embry Riddle, Univ. North Dakota & Univ. of Michigan have great reputations that the airlines love and a 4 year degree...assuming you have the 4 years and $, but those names on a resume' WILL get you considered for a job) I got my private ticket at ComAir Aviation Academy (now called Delta Connection...fast paced, professional training, instruct there for a little while and go to work for the better regionals in the industry, all the while with a CFI ticket in your back pocket).

Personally, I didn't have the cash for these programs and got my tickets part time while working and studying, then flying with friends to split costs for multi time.

I'm not throwing cold water on your idea to train @ MPD, but like everything in life, your actions have ramifications, both good and bad.

hope this helps
respectfully,
Mongo
"Candy-gram for Mongo!"
"Mongo like candy!!"

[pilotpete711]

There's nothing wrong with MPD. I'm flying the line at MESA with guys who went through MPD. They spent just as much as I did at Florida Tech, and there's no difference between our flying. It doesn't matter where you go, they all teach the same thing. And after you're hired, nobody will care if you a Riddler, FIT, MPD, DCA, or whatever. You'll even forget where you trained.

By the way, any airline is what you make of it. You can complain or just go fly then go home and leave the politics in the cockpit. It's up to you.